Curse

korcan · Sep 03, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

isnt it a little naive to think that a mmo is going to be completely grind free?

imo, guildwars provides enough variety in repetitive tasks to keep things interesting.

if you dont want repetition, dont play mmos as all mmo rewards are tied into time invested. or you can just play through the main story line and stop playing.

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 03, 2007, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

So, to all those complaining about having to reach a certain level of achievement to obtain a variety of purely cosmetic items, what did you call going from level 1 to level 20 with each of your characters? Which wasn't at all about cosmetics?

The titles for rewards are nothing different, and nor are the ways to go about it. Want to get from level 19 to level 20 finally? Oh no, might have to go kill a few things for it. And guess what, you did. And now, a brand new extension of GW, and you want everything available to you without any effort...why? Was it because you got so spoiled by getting ran everywhere in Prophecies that you never did grasp the reality of the game in the first place? Skipped a few lessons along the way perhaps?

Sorry, this isn't going to be some dope getting ran to Beacons, then standing there asking for a run to Droknars. And thank the heavens for that.

I've done nothing but normal gameplay (no mindless quests over and over again) with typical exploration of EOTN, and I'm darn near level 5 Asura. I was even shocked when I checked it last. So where is all this 'grind' as you call it (which it isn't IMO) coming from anyway?

Strange, I've done nothing but normal gameplay yet I was far back from rank 5. A huge problem that comes up in these threads about grind is that people have different opionions of what "grind" and "effort" are.

You know what the problem is? When you repeateadly "vanquish" areas and get more points than you would doing quests/dungeons. Now since some people like you expect people to "work" for their armor, would adding a major increase in quest/dungeon reward points bother you? Since they would then able to do different activities without grind and still get lots of reward points, would that be considered "working for the armor"?

Again, people's different ideas of grind make threads like this turn into sloppy arugments. I spent about 5 hours clearing out Magus stones multiple times....it wasn't fun...I did the same thing over and over again. After a while, I minimized GW and let the heroes/henches do the work for me while I did other stuff. Now one would argue "stop boring yourself and do something else for asura points"....that's where the main problem is: you get more points through grind than you do by playing the game normally. 5 hours of grind might seem like nothing to some people, but it's still grind....boring and braindead. I wanted my armor now....I'm not gonna spend ages getting it by doing those quests and dungeons that barely give any points.

I have a better suggestion for "working" and "earning" armor.....add Hard mode in Eotn and instead of rank, make it so you have to beat a few dungeons in HM to view the armor crafter. Now you got the complete opposite of grind - make the dungeons hard, then there's little room for messups and lame builds...only then would getting your armor take true "effort".....hen we'd have new complaints - "this dungeon is too hard to beat"......we'd also have a new common counter argument - "stop using crappy builds....Guild wars is a team game". A few idiots view grinding for armor as "earning it and putting in effort". Braindead grind = effort?

On a random note, just about every dungeon and random quest I have in my log doesn't have any faction reward points.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 03, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

and instead of rank, make it so you have to beat a few dungeons in HM to view the armor crafter.

That would be brilliant as it would make it so there's still a good challenge to get them, only the challenge is fun instead of boring.

Hyper.nl · Sep 03, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Please, for the kittens, stop crying about this light grind. The titles are fair enough and are nothing compared to PvP ranks, FoW requirements and Kurz./Lux. allegiance ranks.

You don't get everything for free here. If you want the armor, go work for it. Take the time if you don't want to grind. Just get the points by playing through quests under the blessings. If that's too much to ask, go with one of the standard armor sets from Prophecies, Factions or Nightfall.

Assassin [NL] · Sep 03, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

@Hyper.nl

I totally agree, you must work for your armor.

BUT!

The problem is , that the most people think or realy know IT!, that the armors are pure re-skins and nothing new. Take assassin for a sample: Fishy Armor, 15k Kurzick with less spikes on the armor ? (Norn) Dwarves looks like a Newbie Assassin (And it's a max armor !) the Ranger 10k with those big glove's ? ever saw a ranger walking in the forest with those huge Glove's ? come on, they need to pay those Art designers more, or kind like that, to get ORGINAL armors, like the Prophecies campaign.

And of that Grinds, i think it's not grinding it's more WORKING for your title , if you dont want to grind don't do it plz!(Like members said before here) but yeah i really was dissapointed when i saw that Droknar's Blades daggers, same skin as the Forgotten at the Nightfall campaign AND! same stats. I taught a cool big blade with chains or ? more REAL daggers, not a reskin dagger. And they looked colored with PAINT, to make it DIFFERENT, between the 2 campaigns.

Nightfall: (Same stats like the Talons of Forgotten)

Droknar's Blades (End Game Daggers EotN)

(Sorry for mis-spell)

But yeah, it was more worth 15 bucks, than 40, but that's me.
I hope they can make it better with a UPDATE

JMUN23 · Sep 03, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkin

GWs was ALWAYS said thet they were NOT about grinding.....

Well play GWEN and tell me who's lying

Another $40 wasted IMO

...grind for title points to get this armor then that armor....oops...gotta get 250 destroyer cores etc!!!!!!!!!!

Proof? I've read numerous press releases and watched interviews but this doesn't come to mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not fond of grinding, but to blatantly come up with lies just because you're upset is somewhat low of you. I'll be one of the first to admit, I hate this grinding for the sole reason I want my armor here and now. So when I think about it, that sounds immature and I don't mind working a bit for it anymore.

Malice Black · Sep 03, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

Is there a way to get fissure without repeating some action?

My fissure was bought with gold/ecto made from trading. High End trading is hardly grind, it requires time, but I could do other stuff in between.

Blkout · Sep 03, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

You only have to "grind" if you want the armor. And since your char has to be level 20 to get to EotN, you already have Max Armor on him/her.

You don't need EotN armor. If you want to get it, you have to work for it. Makes sense. And I like it that way

Incorrect! You need to grind to raise your rank to increase the power of the new PvE skills.

John Bloodstone · Sep 03, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The sentence I highlighted is precisely why grind exists. In the absence of something to work for following completion of the main game, much motivation to play the PvE portion of this game for more than a few dozen hours evaporates.

Strictly speaking, the game is not mis-characterized as being "not about grind"; after all, very little grind is necessary to complete the missions or quests.

Bang on the money imo. One of the biggest complaints levelled against prophecies pve was the lack of any endgame. Once the storyline was completed, pve'ers had 2 options: make a new char or farm your balls off for fissure armour.

None of the titles are required to complete the game, yes they give an advantage but you could still finish the game without them. In that respect they are optional, just as the new armours are. If you don't want to invest any effort to get new stuff in the game then just finish the game and shelve it.

Another thing I don't understand is that many players are more than willing to farm/trade for hundreds of hours in order to get fissure armour, but the idea of farming for 15-20 hours for a few fringe benefits horrifies them? Where is the difference in grinding for gold and grinding for points? Oh I forgot, it's required grind... except that it isn't.

sevendash · Sep 03, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blkout

Incorrect! You need to grind to raise your rank to increase the power of the new PvE skills.

Right, but your decision to use the PvE skills since they are once again unnecessary. If you want them to be better, use them in your grind. People want but are unwilling to give in return.

Tyras · Sep 03, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Let it be known, people who don't speak out, will be left with a crap hole, people that protest, get results so those who are saying stop whining, you stop moaning to the protesters n go live in your crap whole -_- it gets annoying seeing that Red engine crap...thats pathetic....

sevendash · Sep 03, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyras

Let it be known, people who don't speak out, will be left with a crap hole, people that protest, get results so those who are saying stop whining, you stop moaning to the protesters n go live in your crap whole -_- it gets annoying seeing that Red engine crap...thats pathetic....

We're speaking out, but you don't want us to because why? So you're doing what we're doing basically. Telling us to stop whining, as we say the same back about the people that don't want to work for what they want. Interesting, isn't it? I think I'll keep telling them to work instead of whine because it gets results as your model shows us. It's not like it's even that hard to gain rank for the titles. I only see Vanguard being troublesome at all.

Tragedy_Strikes · Sep 03, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevendash

Right, but your decision to use the PvE skills since they are once again unnecessary. If you want them to be better, use them in your grind. People want but are unwilling to give in return.

Unwilling to give in return? Sorry. I thought I gave $40.

Pompeyfan · Sep 03, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

This is the second time this point has been brought up in this thread, and the second time it appears to have gone ignored. I'm really, really interested to see someone try to address it.

26,000 points in a title is nothing compared to working on Luxon/Kurzick titles, Sunspear rank, Lightbringer rank, Vabbian armor, Obsidian armor, or (in my opinion) working through a campaign on the third or fourth character. If you want something of prestige, you need to work for it. Otherwise, it has no prestige. If you disagree that its prestigious, then obviously you don't care enough to work for it and thus, have nothing to complain about.

TBH I can't see anything prestigious about FoW/Odsidian armour or any armour/weapons for that matter and thats with having a set of FoW on my ranger - the only reason I got it was because it was the only male ranger armour I actually liked the look of in chap 1 and I wanted extra energy and thought male druid looked stupid, I'd quite happily swap it for new armour but imo all the male ranger apart from FoW looks stupid, especially the ones with great big overcoats. The same thing happened with my warrior - I only liked male FoW warrior, but that was only untill Primevil which I prefer to FoW (and it's chest piece crumb catcher) so I ditched the FoW for it, my other characters have 1k and 1.5k stuff (Necro, Derv, Ele) as I prefer the look to more expensive stuff. Same with weapons - I'd rather have my purple req 9 inscribable bow with a skin I like, than an expensive gold version or an expensive daft looking weapon just to pose - I don't care what others think, I choose stuff because I like the look of it.

Oh and to answer the question - getting FoW didn't seem like a grind as it was re-doing high level quests and hoping for good drops (ecto/shards or a nice rare sellable gold) with a full party rather than mindless repetative solo farming the same things all the time.

Unlucky Slayer · Sep 03, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Now I dont really mind the playing for points, but they really really need to add in more quests that give Asura point rewards. Not nearly enough secondary quests that give Asura point rewards where as the other branches have more. =/ Oh well.

Lady Lozza · Sep 03, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Maybe I just got lucky, but I was r4 from quests (Asuran + Asuran primary) and just cleared Magnus Stones twice to get to rank 5. Granted, on my way to the quests I did do a lot of map clearing. Why? I wanted to take in the scenery, I didn't rush any of it and got some lovely screenies as a reward for my slow pace.

In Magnus Stones I got lvl 2 bodyguard and hunt rampage quickly. Rampage is EASILY maintainable on this map because the foes are nice and close - my party had no speed buff and I managed to keep rampage up for the majority of the map. It took me less that 2 hours to make up the final points that I needed for armour that I really wanted. I didn't consider it grind except for my general complaints on guild chat that I couldn't do a dungeon with them because I wanted my points for armour.

To be perfectly honest, the points do seem to go slowly when you sit around looking at them, not understanding how the hunt bonuses work. Yes, I probably got lucky, but compared to the 10k faction needed in Factions to continue the main mission, the final 10k I needed happened MUCH more quickly. Compared to standing around trading highend items (which had to be farmed in the first place) it was much quicker. Compared to 55'ing UW for ecto for FoW I found it much quicker.

camulus · Sep 03, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Dont grind if you dont like it is too simplistic

If you are dealing with one toon then its sort of a viable comment, however I play all of them and some of them I would like to give treats to.

My particular problem is I dont mind earning something but if you want to do that on 12 characters or more its just too much of a pain in the arse and not worth it.

Everyone could probably be satisfied simply by making it that once you have GROUND one toon through all the trash to get armour or whatever, that the facilites then become available to the other toons on your account.

I have 3 accounts with 15 toons on each of them , I am only upgrading one because the grinding is stupid and a waste of time , I will still play but in other areas I like, however the point is this is PVE and we shouldnt have to grind and grind on every single character to get certain rewards on each one.

They are gonna lose money from me, and Ive been there from the start.

I really think they can satisfy all by having it so that once the grinding item (whatever it is ..includes that stupid faction grinding in factions) is completed on one toon , the others on your account can have it.

Ill still take some toons through the story line but no way in the world will they be doing the stupid grinding.

IMO,,,,,,,,the stupid grinding is there to keep you occupied till GW2, Ill continue to play the areas I like and look around for a replacement

darktyco · Sep 03, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

After reading this thread, I am glad I waited to buy GWEN. I have a total aversion to grind and I would not have been happy at all.

John Bloodstone · Sep 03, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tragedy_Strikes

Unwilling to give in return? Sorry. I thought I gave $40.

$40 buys the game, not the complete UAX pack. Every game in existence requires some effort to be put in for the rewards - from FPS, RTS through RPG and MMO it's one of the fundamental concepts of gaming.

Diablo™ · Sep 04, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

The title is hardly a grind, these people are complaining they can't reach Rank 5 in just 4 days since the expansion released, it's absurd. High-end contents are not meant to be purchased right off the bat! Everybody's so sensitive about their elite status, that they can't wait to get the bestest best stuff right this very instant!